Is Anything Real?

Here's a myth that's quietly wrecking high performers.

Success is additive.

Add more effort, add more output,

add more commitments, add more you.

But what if the real unlock is subtraction?

Not quitting life,

but removing the fake weight

that's riding shotgun in your brain.

Today we're going to talk through

subtraction, resilience, caregiving,

and why try harder is

sometimes the most expensive advice in the world.

Welcome back to "Is Anything Real?",

the reality-first leadership show,

where we test advice,

publish the receipts,

and ship what works under constraint.

I'm Adam W. Barney,

transition leadership coach,

author of Make Your Own Glass Half Full,

and the guy currently running a household

that could qualify as constant, controlled chaos.

Today's guest is Nell Derick Debevoise Dewey,

a.k.a., Nell3d,

a longtime friend of mine,

a sharp mind,

and the creator of

the 100-Day Subtract to Succeed Practice

over on Substack.

Nell's work is basically a daily permission slip

to stop worshiping more

and start building a life that actually holds.

Nell, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Adam.

It's great to be here.

I'm pumped to have you here.

Okay, let's give it to our listeners straight.

What's the most tempting thing to subtract right now?

Is it meetings?

Is it email?

Or could it even simply be other people's expectations?

It's maybe a blend of all those,

especially the last.

I really point people toward unhelpful thinking.

We've all got it,

it doesn't show up on any to-do list or calendar.

So it's really insidious, and it has this, like, double cost.

Right?

Because while we're doing the unhelpful thinking,

we're not thinking about, like,

something creative or beautiful or uplifting.

And then there's this hangover to the negativity

that really sucks our energy.

So yeah, whether it's like,

shoot, is this the right outfit?

Or like, did I say the right thing?

Is there something I could have done to keep that contract?

Right?

All that rumination.

I am not against reflection,

to be very clear.

I think you and I share that,

we're deeply self-reflective people,

and we encourage our clients and colleagues to self-reflect.

And we all know, if we're being honest,

when reflection flips over into unhelpful ruminations.

Mmmh, mmh.

So I remember now you once actually called me

a star student and pro-zilience.

I'm still not sure if that's a compliment or a diagnosis.

Can you explain maybe

a little bit of what that means, actually?

It's definitely a compliment.

Adam, you, I mean,

a household that could be described as controlled chaos.

You are just a heroic partner and father,

all alongside this incredible, prolific career that you have.

So hats off to you.

It was certainly a compliment.

And you know, pro-zilience

is something that I like to refer to

in place of resilience.

Right.

I think there's a bunch of problems with resilience.

There's nothing inherently wrong with it, right.

So much of our subtraction

is just cutting the wheat from the chaff.

Resilience is a fine idea in and of itself.

And I think sometimes it ends up being a way

to shift blame for systematic problems onto individuals.

And I'm not a big fan of that.

But what we're talking about here is the shift to pro-zilience,

right?

And so if you have

any study of Latin or just SAT words,

you probably remember

re is back, and pro is forward, right?

And so instead of being zilient, right,

bouncing back to where we were before, like,

we go through this chaos.

And then like, whoooh.

We get it together and fall back into our seat.

What if we go through all this chaos,

and manage a household,

and illness, and family,

and challenge, and traffic, and work

and learn from it to grow forward,

and to become a better coach,

and a more grounded human,

and a more loving partner.

That's the magic of prozilience,

and that's what I was complimenting you for.

I love it here.

And you know, I guess, coming out of that, you know,

start us off, you know,

what's the biggest lie smart people tell themselves

right before they over-effort?

Great question.

And that's really what it comes down to,

you know, we tell ourselves,

and it is echoed by society.

Right?

So limit the self-blame here.

That, you know, just that one little more thing, right?

If I just proofread this one more time,

it'll get really solid or, you know,

if I did that executive program

and had that qualification,

I bet I'd get the promotion.

Or I just, I need.

I've been doing all these stretch projects,

but I haven't done one in that department.

That's what it'll take.

I mean, part of it can even get simpler,

I would say.

Right?

About, if I just push through this week,

for instance,

or once I catch up,

I'll breathe.

Or this is just the season.

And I think the spoiler there is,

it's always the season

if you're saying that.

But it's also the mythical week

where nothing happens.

It's the unicorn week.

It's the vacation that's scheduled for 2039.

But, you know, let's name it.

The myth here is that success comes from adding more.

And, you know, whether it's more,

the goals, the output,

the hustle, the tools,

the content, the optimization.

I think you and I both would agree

it's more pain dressed up as discipline.

And the truth is that,

and I know you believe this with what you do,

success is built by subtraction.

But, you know, I would love you to define subtraction

like an operator and not like a quote graphic

that we might have up on our wall.

But what are we actually subtracting when we do this work?

Yeah.

So I want to qualify it as, you know,

the full term I refer to as systematic subtraction.

And so this isn't kind of a simple,

less is more, rigid boundaries,

like time blocks and blinders,

which, again,

nothing inherently problematic with those things.

But for high performers

with families they love and personal ambitions,

we can't necessarily do that.

Right.

It's not about kind of rigidly opting out and dropping balls.

Right.

So subtraction is about releasing things.

1,000%.

I'm not disagreeing with your second-grade math teacher.

This dramatic part, though,

is what I think differentiates this a bit,

and what I really encourage people to lean into.

And the idea here is, you know,

taking a systems thinking lens,

which is a beautiful whole school of thought and theory,

if people want to nerd out and go deep, you can.

But the simple idea is that everything we do all day

is connected to other things in our lives.

Right?

Right.

And I mean, that gets into, you know,

people looking at performative productivity,

fake urgency, rather.

I think we all live in so much noise, right?

Especially when we're in complex situations of life.

But you don't need to subtract the ambition there.

But, but you know, to zero in a little bit more,

even, you know,

what's the difference between subtraction, rather,

and just avoidance?

You know, ignoring the equation.

So that's the systematic part, right.

Is the dot connecting?

So as an operator, right.

Let's look at your calendar.

What's happening this week?

In a given meeting, like, okay,

there's the meeting, right.

And hopefully it has an objective and an agenda,

which, by the way, a lot of meetings these days do not.

So that's a good place to start.

Subtract objectiveless meetings

that just pop up because they're recurring.

Right.

But the systematic part is, you know,

who's there,

and why are we getting them together,

and what else are they doing later in the day,

and what is their pressure and timeline to make a decision?

And does this meeting help

or slow that down,

or prevent an, you know, present a barrier?

What about for me?

What does that mean for my family obligations?

What does that mean for my energy?

What time of day is it?

Is that a pro or a con?

Right.

So it's not just kind of redlining things,

it's zooming out and taking a minute

to be really thoughtful about

what might I let go of,

as an experiment,

not as a permanent embargo

or a lifelong commitment,

but what might I experiment with letting go of.

And how does that ripple to the other people

and efforts and activities

in the system that is my life.

Right, right, right.

You know, most people don't have a time problem,

which I think a lot of people classify it,

they have a meaning problem.

They're over-efforting to protect themselves

or to make them feel safe.

Right.

You know, I, I also will go back to prosilience because,

you know, you called it that by, you know,

not just bouncing back,

but improving because of the shocks there.

And you know, let's go there.

Caregiving, illness, real life,

when life gets loud, I've actually seen,

and I think you've seen that

subtraction becomes actually a non-negotiable.

Yeah, completely.

You know, I think it's why we often remind leaders

that family caregivers,

whoever they're caring for,

are really desirable workers

because they know what actually matters.

Right.

And so, in a noisy world where,

any role today, I mean, you know,

the AI complicates it to some extent,

but in some ways even worse.

You could fill your week with 100 hours of work,

you could fill your week with 200 hours of work

through the depth of research,

the depth of partnership,

the depth of refinement

and you know,

and so someone who has a vital,

maybe existential concern

to help set those priorities

and sort out what actually matters

and moves the needle

is a real professional skill at this point.

Right, right.

And I mean, you know, subtraction, I think,

looks different when you can't opt out of the hard thing.

I think that, you know, caregiving actually

destroys a lot of those beliefs instantly

when it comes to control, predictability.

And it changes when you when you

enter that survival mode,

is what I would argue it is.

And you know, I think everyone listening,

and I myself love, you know, hearing a good life hack.

But caregiving, I would argue, is the ultimate anti-hack.

It's just the reality that you need to sit in.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.

You know, now one of my favorite other things

that you've said is,

we're not subtracting wealth or relationships here.

We're actually subtracting what I would call

the BS that's piled on top of perfectly good concepts.

What are some examples there, you know,

where that maybe goes, you know,

back on what we were just saying?

Is it relationships, maybe,

versus relationships as image management,

or leadership, as performative leadership?

Yep, totally.

So in relationships, you know, I think it's those false.

You named it really early.

Those false expectations

that we think someone thinks we should X.

Right.

Like, that's a horrible way to move through the world.

Because first of all, they probably don't,

if it's not a realistic expectation,

and they do think that,

then let's clear it up so that you're not disappointed.

I'm not overworked, and you're not disappointed.

Right.

But there's so much of that.

A really fun post

that got a ton of attention was, like,

what if we subtracted other people

and we don't actually want or have the option

to subtract other people.

Right.

They are an inevitable part of our work,

thank goodness.

But there is so much noise there about

what they think we think,

what they should, we should, you know,

and so to get clearer and more direct

in those relationships

is a gift to everybody involved.

You know, wealth, a little bit of Jason here,

but professionals have wealth

and need to be smart about it.

So, subtract the silence

is what I've been talking a lot about just this month.

You know, like,

it's not helpful to not be willing to talk about wealth,

which is simply a means of exchange.

Like salt got too heavy to carry around

and trade for vegetables and houses.

And so we created money.

That's all it is.

It's not magic.

It doesn't create power.

It doesn't make you better or worse.

And yet there's this hush, hush.

You know, we're both in New England,

of course, it kind of peaks up here.

But yeah, so you're exactly right.

It's, you know, there's nothing wrong with money

or wealth, or power, or relationships,

but we do have some piled-on nonsense that doesn't help.

I mean, would you even say that,

from looking at money specifically?

Is that a status symbol you'd like to delete from society,

or is it simply talking about it

and maybe using it differently?

I just want to.

Right.

Size it.

You know, it's one of our primary symbols of value

in the professional world right now.

You know,

obviously we share a real commitment to purpose,

and legacy, and changing people's lives,

which is also a currency.

And money is what, in some ways,

makes the world go round.

And it's an expensive life these days.

Whether you're caregiving,

or exploring

or trying to buy health care,

you know, these are all expensive endeavors.

And so there's nothing wrong

with capturing some of the value you create

in the form of money

and being proud of that

and then deploying it really strategically

to have great experiences,

to learn more,

to make family safe,

to have impact.

These are all great ideas

and worth doing,

and worth celebrating.

I just think that it's become too one-dimensional.

That that is our net worth,

is our number amount in the bank.

All right.

You know, what would you say, Nell, is one thing, let's say,

that you believed about success at 25,

that you now want to fight in a parking lot

or, you know, by the bar, for instance.

Love a good bar fight.

You know, I think it's this, like,

again, to your allusion earlier that, like,

it will arrive.

You know, that like,

well, I'm doing all these things,

all the right things,

I'm working hard,

I'm getting all these degrees.

I'm changing people's lives

and building a family.

And then one day it'll like,

knock on the door

and present me a certificate

or a life-size gold star or something.

And, you know, in retrospect that feels silly.

I'm like, would my 25-year-old self really have said that?

And I don't think she would have really said that,

but I think that was kind of the sense

that I and my peers lived with

and moved according to.

And then you know, 21 years later it's like, well, no.

You know, it's success then,

and success now,

and success in 10 years,

and next week,

and all of them will look really different.

None of them come with a knock on the door and a certificate.

And increasingly, I understand that they can,

and for me, must,

feel good, not just look good.

That's valuable.

Okay, I'm going to go to a little honest place here

where I am,

and I think this is probably

one of the most modern forms of suffering.

Let's talk about content backlog shame.

You want to talk about subtraction?

I've got a backlog of recorded episodes.

I've had that problem for a while,

and I keep thinking,

should I use this for SEO?

Should I use it for clips?

Should I just push the transcripts out there?

And suddenly,

I'm running a media company that I didn't consent to.

You know, how does that feel with,

I know everything you're building,

and subtraction,

with even the pressure of a Substack

and needing to deliver there,

and avoiding over-efforting,

and falling onto that weekly topic treadmill?

Yeah, it's a great question

and I totally appreciate the honesty.

You know, for me,

so I think the bottom line

is the same as what we're talking about

with relationships or wealth.

Subtracting the BS.

There's nothing wrong with relationships,

nothing wrong with wealth,

nothing wrong with great content.

Right.

Very valuable,

and a driver to your core business,

which is being a coach,

not a media company.

So nothing wrong with it.

The subtraction is: where is it over-efforting?

Where is it wagging the dog?

And so I went through this very, you know,

I had that created this 100-day practice, like,

sort of walked into it,

like not totally doing the math

of what that would look like.

And thank God I did.

And you know, I guess probably three weeks in,

so not very far, right?

20ish days, a fifth of,

20% of the way in,

I was like, oh, the weekly topic whiplash is real.

And I talked to some clients and audience members

and they were like, that one was so juicy.

I'm like, just barely wrapping my head around it.

And now we're on Mars.

You know, it's a totally different topic this week.

And so it's like, oh, right,

a topic like wealth gets a whole month.

It's not a week of topic, it's a month.

Right.

And so there will be

three topics over these hundred days, not ten.

And so, I just let it go, right?

I let go of the fact that, like,

I've started this cadence.

They're expecting it.

No.

New game.

I announced it.

We're shifting to monthly,

and played that out.

Right.

And so now it's okay, week one,

we announced the topic,

then we go through the three Ds.

There's a me,

and there's a we,

and there's a world lens on that topic.

And, Adam, it's been great.

I mean, I could slow down even more in some way.

Right?

But, like, I'm not a wealth expert.

I'm talking about subtraction in wealth.

And so that's a month,

and then we move on.

So I think it's just about, you know,

separating the wheat from the chaff

and understanding what is my business,

who am I here to serve,

to collect some of that value in the form of cash,

to have a company and viable life,

and raise and support a family

and what supports that, you know.

And for me, the practice of every day,

having a little nudge,

is really powerful for me.

And it's coming back.

It's serving people in the community,

and in turn,

building the community,

which serves my needs as an author,

you know, trying to sell a book.

So that has been the subtraction.

It's just like, w

hat's really the point of all of it,

and what adds, and what's realistic?

And then, you know, I definitely batch, right?

I've gotten down to where it's about three hours

to create the week coming ahead.

Go through it every morning to kind of

know where people are hearing me that day.

But no shame about the backlog.

Like, subtract the shame.

First of all, full circle.

That's the unhelpful thinking, Adam,

is the shame.

Let it go.

You've created some great stuff.

You'll get it out when it's out

when it serves the real purpose.

I mean, I'm just joking here.

When I say nothing says inner peace,

like having, you know, 78 recorded episodes

or 50 newsletters sitting in your can

looking at you like unpaid interns.

Right?

And I mean, I think, you know,

what you just were talking about, you know,

gets into subtracting, maybe,

having a deeper understanding

of what gets published versus what gets released.

Or how do you, you know,

prevent creation from becoming just another addiction?

Because I think there is a dopamine feed there for sure.

Let's give listeners some receipts.

When someone starts subtracting well,

what actually changes?

Yeah, and maybe let's get specific.

Is it about even sleep,

or is it less resentment?

Where does it head?

Yeah, you know, I will speak primarily just for myself

because it's the case study

that I've seen most up close and personal

for the last,

call it, like, 18 months

that this has really been a commitment.

And what I see in the outside world,

which to me is the best receipt.

Right.

Because I can tell you how I'm feeling or sleeping.

But all of these openings and wins are coming my way

at a rate that was not happening before.

Mmhm.

And so, you know,

whether it's like,

the person I was thinking of calling

or an email coming in for what I was hoping for,

or the TED invitation sort of dropping into my lap

after like a few false starts,

and scrambles. and hustles

to strategize the TED,

and then it's just like,

oh, here's the perfect one.

Right.

You know, and so I think, you know,

it's not at all to make it like a manifest.

You know, just sit back and subtract

and picture the wins

and they'll drop in your lap.

But, I really take that as powerful evidence

of the fact that I am doing what matters,

what moves the needle.

And so I don't feel harried.

I'm probably working 20% fewer hours a week

than I was a year ago at this time.

That's power right there.

Yeah.

You know, and so I'm walking the dogs a bit more.

I'm back in touch with some friends that I wasn't.

I'm able to manage the bandwidth of private, you know,

household transactions that are happening.

My stepson's wedding and, you know,

buying a house.

So I think that's really the evidence

that has been most gratifying to me is like,

the world, my world, is responding by seeing this focus.

Right.

And that's the other piece I would say is just, speaking of content.

Right.

The narrower focus on, like,

I'm really just talking about subtraction.

And it comes in lots of flavors

on lots of themes with lots of examples.

But I'm the subtraction person now.

And so that subtraction to subtraction

has been building momentum in a really juicy way.

I mean, I'm gonna bring this down and say that, you know,

there's a really quick, probably 15-minute way

that listeners can run this week.

Obviously, they can head to your Substack to find this as well.

But it doesn't have to be complicated.

Right.

It could be as simple as opening a note,

putting three columns on it.

One being for what drains you.

Second being for what distorts your thinking.

Is it doom-scrolling, comparison, perfection loops?

And then the third column being what I think is like, defer.

Right?

What can you keep postponing

that would actually reduce some of the pressure?

And I have a lot of friends who talk about healthier men at work

asking for help simplifying a system,

having the conversation, you know,

and then maybe circle one item from each column,

pick one subtraction in the next seven days

and then pick one replacement.

Because you know, simplification, you know,

could really help.

Whether it's replacing late-night email

with a shutdown ritual,

or maybe just replacing trying harder,

as a generalization,

with a 15-minute focused planning block.

Right.

And what I would, the tidbit that I would add

to that really solid, practical step

is when you do the replacement, make it 3D.

Right.

So do a quick scan of me.

How's it really going

for my physical, mental, intellectual, spiritual well-being?

We, my team and my family,

personal and professional we.

And world.

Some little, narrow personal you version of impact

that you want to have

on the communities you're part of,

and don't just replace the latest fad

or what you saw in your Instagram scroll last about balance,

or what your boss told you you should be doing, right?

Really think 3D about which dimension of life

needs a little more love

and do something that serves that.

Yeah.

Nell, after everything we just talked about,

is anything real

in terms of leadership

would be where I would probably end this with a bow.

So the real thing that,

I was thinking about this as prepping for today,

you know, whatever.

Like, what's real is that our life is 3D.

We are part of a system.

What's not real is the industrial era,

linear,

this, then, that thinking.

And so, as soon as we accept the reality of being in a system,

it's complex, it's multifaceted, we can't control it.

But it's real.

And as soon as you accept that,

the possibilities are endless.

Right.

I view it as: what's real is your life is the system.

If the system is overloaded,

no amount of motivation can fix it.

And it's about subtracting what's fake,

keeping what's human,

and building what compounds.

But now, where can people find

the Subtract to Succeed practice,

and your work here?

Yeah.

So Subtract to Succeed is on Substack.

I'll make sure that you have the guest pass

so people get 90 days free.

The paywalled version has the practice,

the daily practice,

as well as a mini course.

And I would love to play with people there

to learn more about it.

Nell3d.com

is my kind of homepage.

All the references are there as well.

And we'll, of course, link to all that in the show notes below.

But now, thank you.

And listeners, if this episode hit you,

send it to one high performer

who's treating burnout like a badge.

And if you're leading through a change

and want that reality first reset,

there's a clarity call with me linked in the show notes.

No pitch, just space to get honest and choose the next move.

But until next time,

proof over performance,

and ship what works.

Nell, thanks for joining today.

Thank you so much, Adam.

Take good care.